Evening talk with Sant Kirpal Singh at Sawan Ashram, Delhi

Kirpal-Singh-Sawan-Ashram-1974Sant Kirpal Singh: Time will come. First try to grasp the theory fully well. I know you are a strict vegetarian, avoiding all intoxicants. You are a ... you are a swami, naturally that is understood. Are you studying the book (The Crown of Life)?

Swami: Ah, yes.

Sant Kirpal Singh: Try to grasp the theory fully well first. Then everything will be all right. Any questions please, any of you? Don't sit mute and dump. Say something. Yes, come on, please.

Question: I have one that was asked yesterday, and I was not able to understand the answer. And it was about this business, does the Radiant Form of the Master always appear to be luminous?

Sant Kirpal Singh: You remember, yesterday I spoke about this very question? First of all, you should not visualize. God is one who comes of Himself. Secondly, sometimes very lovesick people may have a vision of a form that may not be very luminous. But there is a criterion to test the genuineness of that form by using the charged words given to you. If you repeat those words and that form stands before them, then it is all right. Then, if you put your whole attention into it, that form will become bright. Now it is clear? Anyone else, please? ... Yes, please.

Question: Master, how can obedience be greater than love?

Sant Kirpal Singh: One form of obedience is by compulsion, being forced to do it. If not, dis-obedience may carry the penalty of death. The second way is, out of love you go on with it – no compulsion – unasked for – you must do it. You will be afraid  if you do not do it, there may be some penalty. So being duty bound is no obligation, is it not? No obligation. That you have to do. I will tell you about one professor of science I knew in 1912. He used to live all alone in a house where nobody was permitted entrance without his permission. But I was given freedom to come and go any time. He had love for me. He was a Mohammedan. When I came, I saw him saying prayers. In their prayers, they pay obeisance four or five times, then stand up and pay obeisance. But he would continue sitting for hours. One day I asked him, "Well, dear friend, usually prayers  take four or five obeisances, but you go on doing them for hours." "Well, two hours – four or five times is compulsory, the more I do to win His Love." You see? The rest is due. Duty bound is … duty bound. The word duty is also bound. Out of love.

When the Masters leave the physical plane, they test. They have mysterious ways, you see? Each Master has his own. The third Guru of the Sikhs, Guru Amardas, ordered some platforms to be raised. Bring the earth from some place and raise the platforms. Naturally the orders of the Master are obeyed by every-body, and they began to build up platforms. After some time they were ready. Master said, "Oh, these are no good. Demolish them." Again they built up the platforms and Master said, "This earth is no good, bring earth from there." They demolished them, brought the earth from there and again built up the platform. It went for days. Then He said, "This place is no good. Let us go to the other place." Do you follow? Do you know how many of those disciples remained duty bound? One, two, three, four, five, ten. They began to diminish in number. There also He began in the same way, "This earth is no good, let us go to the hills." All the people slowly left, except for one. And that one was termed Guru Ramdas. Guru Amardas  was over one hundred years of age. People told him, "Well look here, he is an old man. His brain is out of order. What is the good of demolishing and building platforms again and again without purpose?" Ramdas wept, shed tears. "Master is all knowing. If He orders me to go on doing this all through my life, what more do I want? I have to win His pleasure." And it was he who succeeded. Each man has his own way - mysterious way. (This was His way.) Orders are orders. You tell me not to do this, this is my penance, this is my service, this is my everything, worship.

Each man is given the same thing to start with. It is the amount of devotion that makes the difference. Even by word of mouth as I told you, we can learn only one third of the teachings. By devotion, two thirds more. The same is reflected. You are not to make any effort. But the criterion of such a person is that he never loses faith in the Master – He  might be sleeping or anything, dead, he won't  do anything immoral or anything like that. But still, whatever He says is good. To demolish and build up ... So it is devotion that makes the difference to God. Out of thousands He chooses one. You see? He gave something very responsible: Law. He has no ill will for those who want to kill him, you see? … The same lessons are given to the students in the class. Some come out very shining, others drag on, letting others pass them in classes, you see? In my school time it happened one day … students are asked to prepare their lessons for the next day, especially the difficult work. Perhaps in the West it is like that also. The other man, who was always vying with me, did not prepare his lessons one day. And the professor began to rebuke him. "Why is it, strange enough, here is a man (Kirpal Singh) who keeps no copy, never prepares any lesson, but you never tell him anything. Today is the first day I did not prepare  and you are rebuking me." The professor replied, "Well, look here. He knows even that which you have not read in the book." Competence. Sometimes the professor would leave the class to me. "Go on, attend to it." He left the very class in which I was reading, to me. That is devotion, you see.

If you come to the Master, look to where He sits, where He eats, where He looks, why is He scratching here, and you repeat to the people that is due to smoky glasses. But He is above that. Few there are, you see ... I may give you an example of  one illiterate man, who was with the Master for thirty long years. He lived in His house, served Him, and did not know what was lying where. He was coming to Him every day, but he did not know where things were located. Master once told him to go and bring some thing lying in a niche, somewhere. He did not know where that niche was (although) he was living there. You follow? Those who come like that, they come for the Master, live for the Master – die for the Master. This is devotion. So spirituality is a very important subject which cannot be handed out to any man without retaliation, now. All of you are here. Each man has his own devotion. He will gain according to that. He gives the same thing to everybody. It is up to each one of us to grasp, enjoy, according to the receptivity – you see? The word "chela" means: the father's devotee. He is one whom the clothes of the Master fit, do you see? It is a matter of living it, not saying, not professing or making show of anything. No.

Ramakrishna was sometimes seen shedding tears in sweet remembrance of Vivekananda. Why? When I was in service, I used to visit Him (Sawan Singh) twice a week. Any time I did not turn up for a week or so, He would ask everyone, "Where is he?" Then He would take the car and come to my office, about forty miles away. You see? This is love – heart to heart. It develops in that way. That requires no show. Such a one is called a Gurumukh. He becomes the mouthpiece of the Guru. Ask the same question from the Master and the same from him, and they speak the same words. Many people come to the Master. Their development depends on the devotion, each man's own devotion. When you have love for somebody in the earthly way you remember him or her – anybody – at night, daytime, always. It is the same pinching at our heart, you see? If you are sitting among hundreds, your attention is where? You are all alone. When Emerson wanted to be alone, he went to live in an inn, you see? That's where nobody cares for you, and you care for nobody. When you gain control over yourself, you can work wonders. Archimedes found the centre of gravity. The poor fellow was after finding the centre of the world so he could move the world. But he could not find that centre which is within you. Because Masters  have found the centre within, they can give a boost to hundreds and then thousands get something by radiation. The only thing required is one phrase I always use: "Be true to yourself," that's all.

In the time of my Master, many people hankered after the Mastership after Him, you see? One even made Him sign a paper reading, "This is the follower," you see? They prepared the whole thing. He was an advocate ... He died. There are so many others, too. Master always used to refer the people to me. They wondered, "How? How can that be?" So one day He called me and said, "I have just issued all my duties except Initiation. I vouchsafe this to you." No one son would like his father to be suffering. I shed tears. This is selection; no voting. No outer qualifications can help qualify them. It is their way of living, devotion. He has mysterious ways of testing, you see. Each Master has His own way. So it is all His Grace working. Some days people gather, they tell me … "All right, I can go." I have no property in Satsang. You see? I can go. Any moment he may distribute to you, you may go on; proper arrangements for that. So while Master is a man like you, He is not attached at heart.

Kabir gives the criterion to test somebody who has really met the Master. You lose all attachments. All attachments to your wife, children, everybody. Duty – that's another thing. Everybody has to pay off debts, as a reaction of the past. You are to leave all attachments to the body, too. All attachments to name or fame. "All right, Master, I have come to Thy Feet, it is for You. What the other people tell about me, right or wrong, doesn't matter, I am nothing." First that. How will you determine if you rise above body-consciousness daily? Take cross daily, you see. Only then will it be possible, not otherwise. Mere hearsay, outer things, won't do. Can you leave your son dying at home to go on Master's duty – can you do it? No. This is one criterion. The other is, all physical mind, mind's discussions, any unexpected event doesn't affect Him, He is not affected by anything. If there is a bombing, "All right, let us go; He is working."  He knows how to leave the body daily. Unaffected by anybody. He is not waylaid by the suggestions of the mind. Outgoing faculties do not drag Him. He can use all the outgoing faculties at His own will and pleasure. It is a very simple way, I tell you. When you see these three things are embedded, you know He has met God. Christ said, "Who do not take cross daily, they are not my disciples." "I have come to separate daughters from the mothers." Read the Bible. "I have come with a sword." You see? So cut off all inner attachments. Very politely, non-violently. Like sometimes in a tree, you see the outer wood is there, but that's eaten from within by ants. It appears all right outwardly but inside it is hollow. Your inner attachment is cut off.

So since '48 to date, even before, I have  owned no property in Satsang. All this is not mine, you see. You understand what is, what is discipleship? All men have the same five charged words, same attention. The difference lies only in inner, inner vision. So he who has got the centre within one's own self, moves the whole world according to the strength of radiation. Any questions? Come on. Yes, please?

Swami: I would say that after twenty-five years that I studied yoga and philosophy, this is the first time I begin to understand spirituality and yoga.

Sant Kirpal Singh: That is due to your clear brain. That's all I can say.

Swami: I will ask You if I can be initiated.

Sant Kirpal Singh: Well, look here. Father wants each one of His children to come to Him. It is He who sends, it is He who gives. We are not to worry. He makes all provisions. You came to me the other day, quite a new man for the first time. We had never seen you before. "I'd like to stay." "All right, you can." So it is He who sends and it is He who gives. He is within us. So it is all His job, you see. It only depends on if within yourself you have got the urge. So it is all His grace and your clear brain, I would say. I was seeing my Master seven years before. In those days there was the Mesopotamia War. I traversed within with Him to different places. So Master or Word made flesh guides you, as man. He's a man, too. So spirituality cannot be had by votes; it is His choice, His selection. He is a very good observer. He is all along with us, even watching our very trend of mind, which way it goes. The Masters refer to trudging the path of discipleship like walking on the very sharp edge of the razor. It's very difficult. It's very delicate.

It so happened Bulleh Shah, who was a Sayyid, like the Brahmin of the Hindus, high class, was initiated by his Guru, Shah Inayat. So other disciples enjoined, "Oh, he is a Brahmin and is our brother now." But Bulleh Shah was afraid of being called a follower of Shah Inayat, because he belonged to the high class. So one day Master ordered the others, "All right, go to him dancing and crying, ‘Bulleh Shah is our fellow-brother, we are disciple-brothers.'" So he hid himself in his house. They came up to his house, yelled out, "Brother! Our brother is in there." So there was a Sayyid, high class man, hiding within. People asked him, "Are they your brothers?" He said, "No, they're not my brothers." They went away. Master asked, "What happened when you went to him?" "He says, he's not our brother." "All right, I won't water his field." You see? That seed, whatever he had, was all lost. It is His gift, you see. What to do? So once the Master turns His eyes from His disciple, may God help him, you see? So Master used to hear singing, hymns. There was one prostitute who would go to Him every Friday to dance and sing hymns. What to do? How to please Him? Nobody would dare to recommend him to the Master. So he left his hearth and home, became a servant in the house of the prostitute, served in all ways possible, and learned singing and dancing. Do you know how many years it must have taken him? When he became adept in it, one Friday he requested, "Would you kindly let me have your clothes? I'll wear them and go instead of you." "All right." Shah Inayat was there. Bulleh Shah was in that singer's garb. So frolics of loving man are different, you see – every look, every movement, every gesture, all were intoxicated. And Inayat Shah stood up and embraced him. (Master whispers in imitation of Shah Inayat's followers) "What? Did you see Master? The cat is out of the bag!" He says, "Well, Bulleh Shah, just remove your veil." "I'm not Bulleh Shah. I'm a forgetter. Forgiveness I want." Inayat Shah then was pleased, you see. It is very difficult, very delicate. Who sacrifices everything for the Master, even at heart of hearts, his everything, his name and fame, everything.

In my village, I tell you, I was the only man who was a disciple of Master. All the village was against, after me; but they would not, could not convince me. Sometimes up to two, three thousand people asked me what is this (about the Path)? I explained to them. "All right, you want to discuss these things, just choose somebody out of you, some spokesman. Two, four, six or more learned people, we'll talk it over and come to some conclusion." They agreed and fixed the time at night. It was dark night at ten. Villages, you know, are very dark. No lights. So one man swore, "I will just kill him tonight." I went through those dark places, nobody killed me, but he did make some attempt. I went to the meeting and we talked. When I talked to one man, who was a spokesman, he was convinced and those people were after him, too. So when that man came to Lahore, and met me in the street, I greeted him and asked him to my house. I put food before him and he cried, "I am the one who had sworn to kill you." People were against him. No theory, no way of explaining further. Usually, in the beginning, when you speak of the inner way, you are concerned like anything, you see. Now they have begun to understand, naturally. But there was very great opposition, everywhere. So the path of the disciple is very delicate. God bless you all, that's all I can say. You may be killed and not mention that you are being killed. To follow Him is above all other things. Above all.

(Long pause) Oh my Lord, ... It is altogether a new world, you see. You people cannot even dream of that. How can you dream? A man is going to kill you and you will meet him? Christ was very clear about all this: "I have come with a  sword." I think we never cherish these words of His, do we? Then He also said, "Those who love their brothers and others more than me, they are not my disciples." I am quoting His words. I once glanced through the Bible and learned certain words, because the same thing happens to everybody. He only wants attachment to Him, to Him, Him in – within Him. Above all ... (long pause).

I never dreamt that I would be given that job. Never dreamt it. I was astonished. But He is carrying on the work for me. I am only a scape goat, I would say. (Master laughs) Scape goat. This is a very great responsibility. I generally say, "God, spare people this very hard task." So we are following the path of discipleship, you see. Some views, some glimpses of the Light. This cannot be judged by others. You can judge yourself. When you think you are doing well, you are progressing, even that stands in the way. It is all His Grace, His debit; all credit goes to Him. On the Diamond Jubilee Day, celebrated here, government officials were there, high and low, all heads of the religions. They came one by one, and spoke so much tribute. I went on listening, then I had to say something. I told them, "I have been listening very attentively to all these words each one of my friends has been telling about me. Truly speaking, I was passing on these very words to Him to whom all this is due." So it is His work, you see.

Now anything? Any questions? Yes, please, come on.

Question: Master, will everybody eventually find a perfect Master and go back to God?

Sant Kirpal Singh: Surely. When the child is in the womb, Master will arrange. God will arrange for his milk. All children born thousands of years back, hundreds of years back, a few years back, or now being born, all those who come – do you think the arrangements by God would not be made with the mother for her child coming up? He is in the embryo. He looks after everyone. We cannot dream of the responsibility, you see. Truly speaking. We simply compare him in the outer intellectual attainments, this and that thing. All these outer things ...

All infinity is working very good. Want It. We must have It. We should develop all around, physically, intellectually, spiritually. But intellectual attainments only won't get you anywhere. Master says, those who are intellectual are like ignorant children before them. It is a matter of seeing, hearing, with no inferences to be drawn. Well, Swami, what is your program now? What is your further program?

Swami: I think it is to be with you and have ...

Sant Kirpal Singh:
These are some talks – heart to heart talks. You know so much. You are a Swami. For years and years you have been devoting to different yogas. This is the ultimate fruit of all knowledge – outer knowledge, too.

Swami: The goal of each individual human being is to realize what he is.

Sant Kirpal Singh: Yes, yes. In manbody only he can do this.

Swami: If he has a strong desire, God will lead him to the right person.

Sant Kirpal Singh: Surely, surely, that is right. Even if there is only one man living He takes him to the Father. So this is why I say, it is He who sends and it is He who gives. It is One who sends, and it is the same One who gives Him whom He sends.

Swami: Yes. (Both laugh.)

Sant Kirpal Singh: Christ said, He had yet many sheep to look after. The first time I left India in 1955, all gathered together. I said, "I have to go." Some cried, some wept, some others entreated. I told them, "I have to go, I have many things to do." One man sang, "All right, if You cannot stay, then better go!" (Master chuckles.) And he shed tears. On my first tour I was offered one bag of dollars before my return. I did not accept. He said, "Dear friend, it would have been much better had you taken away dollars; you are taking away our hearts."

All right. God bless you. Go jolly, too.